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[【外语类】] 我的英语不地道:the Other Side of the Coin or Two Sides of the Same Coin

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发表于 2007-10-16 14:46:08 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
我的英语不地道:the Other Side of the Coin or Two Sides of the Same Coin
[Finegan, E. and Rickford J. R., (ed.) Language in the USA: Themes for the Twenty-first Century. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2004.]



[主要观点]

英语本身不是“纯洁”的语言,存在“标准英语”和许多变体。虽然不排除一部分非母语者可以像native speaker一样使用英语,但是作为整体,却很难让他们都说“地道英语”。《美国的语言》(Language in the USA)一书中,部分内容涉及到中国移民的语言问题,认为移民难以成为native speaker有以下原因:保持原有文化的愿望;语言歧视或隔离;思维方式的差异。

[文摘及解读]

The USA is a nation of immigrants and the children of immigrants, most of whom did not speak English then they arrived and whose adopted English will always show traces of their ancestry. [245]

   其实我们也可以说英语也是如此,它来源复杂,虽然也有the King/Queen’s English的说法,好像并不像法语那样坚持语言的纯洁。最近看到一些书中English一词变成了可数,有复数形式Englishes, 如这本书的标题:Chinese Englishes(Kingsley Bolton, CUP, 2003),也从一个侧面反映了英语的这种特点。

No matter how many years I am here – even till I die – I will always speak English with an accent. That is a fact I cannot deny. That is a fact I cannot escape from. And people would never see me as an American because the conventional wisdom is that if you are American, you should speak with no accent.
           Cao O, Chinese from Vietnam, in his mid-thirties [p246]
   
   这位移民的语言表达,至少书面语言,挺不错了,可是还是无法称成为native speaker,并融入美国主流社会,可见此事之难。

An analysis of taped interactions of Chinese speakers of English at academic conferences and business meetings has identified a discourse style in which old information is followed by new information. In the presentation of information by Chinese speakers of English, the pattern is to present reasons before making the main point, so that the shared context presented first should lead to a natural acceptance of the main point. Chinese speakers felt that if the point were stated first, it might sound rude, demanding, or unnecessarily aggressive. In contrast, mainstream American English speakers reacted negatively to the absence of a preview or thesis statement because they expected a request followed by arguments to support it. Often discourse strategies effective in Chinese are transferred to interactions when the speaker is using English, and those strategies, are likely to be interpreted as behavioral differences, which are subject to misperceptions, misinterpretations, and misunderstandings. Over time such misuses (printing error: miscuses) can lead to stereotypes that are reinforced with every such interaction. [p262]
   
   思维方式的差异决定了语言的差异,说话人往往对此是不自觉的,很难改。第二代第三代移民可能会改善,但他们不可能完全摆脱父辈的影响。
   另一方面,语言也决定思维。例如,我们习惯先说原因、条件、时间、地点等“从句”,如果不是这样,我们会觉得说出来的句子别扭或带“洋味”。
所以这种思维习惯可能是说“地道英语”的最大障碍。认识到这一点,是有益于语言学习的。

Beyond pronunciation, vocabulary, and grammar, Asian Americans, whether native English speaking or not, face another linguistic challenge – the challenge of reconciling the differences between heritage and mainstream American discourse style and registers. For example, because of the greater gap in status between overseas-born Chinese children and parents, the parents use a more direct style with their children in exchanges such as commands and requests, while the children use a more indirect style. Among American-born Chinese parents and children, the distinction is less clear cut. [p261]
   
   据我观察,国内年轻一代的父母对孩子说法的方式也在变,商量讨论的语气多了。

[结束语]

   这篇小笔记绝非反对地道英语,“要学就学地道的”,这是学习者的目标,否则“取法乎中,故为其下”了。只不过车车的帖子在先,俺就说说问题的另一面,算是一点补充吧。变通与标准是同一问题的不同方面,两者互相作用,形成英语发展的自然过程。增强对“不同”的认识,也是为了更好地掌握外语,达到“同”的目的。关于标准英语,引一段Randolph Quirk的话:

The degree of acceptance of a single standard of English throughout the world, across a multiplicity of political and social system, is a truly remarkable phenomenon: the more so since the extent of the uniformity involved has, if anything, increased in the present century. [ A Grammar of Contemporary Enlish, p16.]

[题外话]

这本书里有一则词源考证,抄录下来,以广见闻:

The first word of American origin to reach English was guaiacum. That word took a roundabout route from the Taino language of the Bahamas where it was used for a tropical plant and the medicine derived from its resin. … in 1533, guaiacum became the first word of American origin to enter the language. (Not until 1686, in a translation from an Italian poem, did English acquire another name for the disease guaiacum was supposed to cure, one taken from the name of the shepherd-hero of the work, syphilis.) [p4]

[附送一本书,David Crystal, English as a Global Language, Cambridge: CUP, 2003. 感兴趣的朋友可以下载阅读。]

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发表于 2007-10-17 16:11:16 | 显示全部楼层
首先谢谢白马兄赐书,呵呵。

其次我觉得“地道”实在太泛以至于失去了实用的价值。倘真要学英语的话,“xxx式的”,“XX风格的”之类的英语变体或许更适合作为学习的目标。
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发表于 2007-10-17 16:14:05 | 显示全部楼层
为什么“维 多 利 亚”在发帖之后变成了xxx?
论坛跟女王有过什么过节不成?
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发表于 2007-10-18 12:41:21 | 显示全部楼层
引用第1楼parivraj于2007-10-17 16:11发表的 :
首先谢谢白马兄赐书,呵呵。

其次我觉得“地道”实在太泛以至于失去了实用的价值。倘真要学英语的话,“xxx式的”,“XX风格的”之类的英语变体或许更适合作为学习的目标。

想起参加雅典奥运会的日本乒乓球女运动员福原爱,那一口流利的“东北话”。地道

关于"地道,"超出语言层面的一点点想法。
纯属个人经验,
在北京混了好几年,学北京话我认为不难,难的是学出老北京那股子劲。
有时评判北京话地道不地道,标准却是“那股子劲”地道不地道。
在南方读书时,学校里有几个北京来的学生,路上见到,一准儿知道是北京来的,用俺们大家的语言来表述:“全身散发着一股傲气”。也是指那股子劲。

除了学习语言,还得学好那股子劲。
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发表于 2007-10-19 11:06:14 | 显示全部楼层
R.P. English do work better than Chinglish in Sydney for instance. It is not a waste of time to learn it.

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 楼主| 发表于 2007-10-19 12:11:54 | 显示全部楼层
Sure! I agree with you. But you'd better bear in mind that it may be more effective to speak Australian English in Sydney There are various "Englishes" in the world, and which one is the purest or the most authentic?

Have a nice trip there!
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发表于 2007-10-20 11:37:18 | 显示全部楼层
嘿嘿,昨天没有中文输入法。
悉尼英语就像是从鼻子哼哼出来的,传说是为了怕苍蝇飞进嘴里,我现在已经有点相信了。那些苍蝇不怕人,最喜欢往嘴边飞。
看来入乡随俗比较重要。
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发表于 2007-10-22 08:44:11 | 显示全部楼层
人非洲小孩就不怕苍蝇往嘴边飞……
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 楼主| 发表于 2007-10-25 16:24:02 | 显示全部楼层
刚发现顶楼附件中的PDF书有外研社影印本的pdg,另外还有一本:

外研社:《当代国外语言学和应用语言学文库》(这套文库车车弄全了吧?我缺好多,要打劫啰):

English as a Global Language by David Crystal
英语:全球通用语 (王逢鑫导读)
International Englsih by Peter Trudgill & Jean Hannah
英语:国际通用语:标准英语地域变体指南 (秦秀百导读)

这套书都有知名学者导读,而且pdg格式似乎更受欢迎,所以弄了一份,借家学的邮箱放一放哈,有喜欢的朋友请去转发吧,最近课业紧、家事多,我也顾不上看了,欢迎看了的朋友发表感想哈:

readfree3000@126.com

free3000.

[为延长邮箱寿命,请使用转发功能,谢谢。]
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发表于 2007-10-25 21:45:55 | 显示全部楼层
相关文章两篇CAJ格式的

学好地道英语的良师益友

地道英语英语变体与国际英语


另外LZ推荐的书哪里可以读到?

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发表于 2007-10-26 09:35:54 | 显示全部楼层
引用第8楼白马西北驰于2007-10-25 16:24发表的 :
刚发现顶楼附件中的PDF书有外研社影印本的pdg,另外还有一本:

外研社:《当代国外语言学和应用语言学文库》(这套文库车车弄全了吧?我缺好多,要打劫啰):

English as a Global Language by David Crystal
.......

这套文库超星似乎漏了两本没扫,除这两本以外,我也没弄全,就挑了音系、句法和历史语言学方面的下载。音系学那本看完了,感觉介绍性比较强,具体的还要再看其他的教材和文章。
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 楼主| 发表于 2007-10-26 09:59:55 | 显示全部楼层
引用第10楼louselice^_^于2007-10-26 09:35发表的:
这套文库超星似乎漏了两本没扫,除这两本以外,我也没弄全,就挑了音系、句法和历史语言学方面的下载。音系学那本看完了,感觉介绍性比较强,具体的还要再看其他的教材和文章。



音系学不只一本哈,文库2001年推出了第二批:

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发表于 2007-10-26 10:08:53 | 显示全部楼层
我有1245 看完了2和4,都是介绍性的,1和5翻了翻,看不大懂,对5的方法比较感兴趣,不过读5不如直接去读语言学领域优选论创始人的书。
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发表于 2007-11-3 19:23:25 | 显示全部楼层
这本书很好   。
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