第八期论坛英语辩论活动(1个威望)

sddz

第八期论坛英语辩论活动(1个威望)

活动说明:
1.按照辩论要求,会员用英语发表对问题的看法,力求新颖,独到,发言以跟帖方式进行,发言不要太多,少于500词,严禁无内容灌水,同意或反对谁的观点都要说明白理由.灌水帖将不通知删除,多次灌水的会员扣1个威望,请注意!
2.活动暂时定为1周一次,待本次活动结束将对此活动规则进行完善.


奖励办法:
对勇于发言,观点较新,英语水平较高的会员由本版主综合以上几个方面评选出5位并各奖励1个威望.原来想只奖励论坛币,请求还没有答复,暂时以威望作为奖励,大家不要错过时机啊.希望大家积极参与.
对活动有好的建议的可以将建议写在活动规则置顶帖中.

评委:montana,sddz

声明:本活动最终解释权归班主.


辩论题目:高薪是否可以养廉

zqwbs

这个题目有些不妥，建议版主出题时把正方和反方的题目都写上，你出的这个题目如果算是正方的话，反方的题目不就是：高薪不可以养廉。这个题目本身对正方有利，建议换个题目，或者换个说法，题目一定要客观。例如正方题目：爱一行，干一行，反方题目：干一行，爱一行。这种类型的题目就比较客观。不知我说的是否在理。

sddz

引用第1楼zqwbs于2006-03-21 11:22发表的“”:
这个题目有些不妥，建议版主出题时把正方和反方的题目都写上，你出的这个题目如果算是正方的话，反方的题目不就是：高薪不可以养廉。这个题目本身对正方有利，建议换个题目，或者换个说法，题目一定要客观。例如正方题目：爱一行，干一行，反方题目：干一行，爱一行。这种类型的题目就比较客观。不知我说的是否在理。

采纳～～～～～～～～～～～～～～

agldacheng

]  Dose the high salary keep the probity of the officers of the government?
I have heard the view that the reason of the prevailing of the corruption of the governments officers is the comparatively the low salary compared with the government like America.
I think many people will support this point of view. But I do not think the high salary will definitely diminish the corruption.
First, how much is too much for the officers?
If we establish the high salary system for them, how much is proper? May be 200,000 Yuan per year? I think it should be considered high enough.
But how much will some government officers get per year. The salary may be 20,000 to 30,000 yuan, but the actual income maybe more than 50,000 Yuan. Believe it? I think that no matter how much they are paid by the tax payers, they will accept the additional sum if there is a chance. You may have different viem against me. You may think, if they are paid more than 1 million yuan per year for everyone, wouldn’t they stop the behavior of corruption. But you must realize that in the present china that is not possible. It would not be 1 million. Our country can not afford that big number.
Second, the corruption of the officers of governments is not a unique phenomenon in our country. It exist in every corner of this nasty world, even those country, in which government officers are paid high salary, let us take America for example.
If not for the corruption. where dose so many scandals come from?
I am not good at politics, so much for my words[/hide]

sddz

不要加密！

[fly]A big pay does not work[/fly]

   Is a big pay helpful to keep the officials off corruption?
   Absolutely not!

   Those hold the opposite stand may believe the famous principle in economics that people will respond to the economical stimulation. The rule is definitely right, which could be seen in many cases around us. For instance, in order to protect the traditional style of construction of Bai People, the government of Dali, Yunnan province offers a sum of money to those households who build the houses that way. The effect is apparent. If you have been to Dali, you may still remember there are many new houses in the style of traditional way. But, as we all know, every rule has a range of application. It will be out of function when the area was surpassed. So is the famous principle of economical stimulation in the hope of people’s positive response.

   Had such policy was adopted and put into effect, those officials will get a better pay than before. But their satisfactory, sooner or late, will disappear for their endless desire. It is pity that the only thing in this world people feel satisfied is their brains. How can they satisfy with the income? They want the money just the way Hanxin need the soldiers. The money cannot be too much. A day passed, the poor may eat nothing while the rich and the corrupt guy spend more than 10,000 Yuan for a meal. Li Jiating, the former head of Yuannan province, is an example. He used to eat the stuff in the head of monkey and a spoon of that will cost more than 1,000.

   Virtually, many people have realized that the original reason for corruption is the political mechanism. Under the extreme circumstance, everything is up to one person, how could you expect that kind of phenomenon diminished, let alone disappeared?

   (306 words)

20072007

I do agree with that high salary can reduce corruption. I have the following reasons to

support my opinions:
Firstly, most of the cases are attributed to the commercial bribery. That is to say, many
corrupted officials have received lots of money in various ways in exchange for giving some
convenience to the briber. These officials have been defeated by money other than something
else. Therefore, as an article in Dazhong Daily puts it, "The central government has listed
commercial bribery as the focal point of its anti-corruption campaign for 2006." On the
contrary, if these officials can reive high salaries from our state, they maybe will not
easily moved by other's money.

Secondly, most officials' salaries are not very high, even lower than those of average
people in advanced cities. As i know, an average official who has worked in Ministry of
Foreign Affairs(MFA) can receive 1400 Yuan every month, plus all kinds of allowances, 1800
in total. The sum is in a middle-low income level in China. So, many officials receive
bribery because they are very poor. They don't receive high salaries, let alone live on easy
street. Worsely, they have to deal with much daily work without days and nights, which also
is worth of higher salaries.

Thirdly, Other western countries have already proved that it is a good choice by raising the
official's salary to reduce corruption. For example, Sweden is a successful country that has
least corrupted officials in the world because the officials in Sweden have very high
salaries. Its history of 17th century tells us a lesson that low salaries could increase
corruption.

Even though High salaries can reduce corruption, it can not root up it. Corruption is the son of the bad social system. We have to establish a sound social system to prevent corruption, which includes the supervision of officials, legislation, and publicity.

zqwbs

I do not agree with high salary can reduce corruption

In my opinion, the higher salary, maybe the more  corrupt, because
people have more orectic to gain.

firstly , I give you an example for it, a man named zhangmoumou lived
nearby my home, he was the key member in a bank. there were three
persons in his family:his wife and his lovely little girl.  His salary is nearly
5000 yun in 1996, that is to say,  he was one of the high salary people.
I think it should be considered high enough. But  the orectic is not limit.
in order to gain more money, he provided a loan very much for a company,
which can surver by chouse other people, why he did that, because the
company paid a more money for him, finally, he and the bad man(the
company's head) were captured  for some years in prison. The reason is
very apparent.

In evey contury,especially in China, there are much malfeasants, whose
salary are very high, but they are chasing after a  more higher salary. so
I think that our contury should demand the richer to pay a more tax ,which
can keep a balance. In other words, our government shoule encourage the
higher people to whip-round for the poor man, which can reduce some press
for our government, our people, our country. At the same time, Our country
should pay a higher salary for the person who have more skill, otherwise,
keep an even salary for some officer.

Finally, Our government should learn a good experience from other country,
and do more work in propagandizing a tradition thought that is:"man of hon-
-our get money from proper approach". If some corruption officer can prevent
corruption, our country will become more brave.

rabbit_tall

I, as a realist, do believe that high salary can reduce corruption in our country.

Firstly, it is an important counter-corruption measure supplementing other existing measures, such as punishment and supervision. As we all know, supervision and punishment have been being used very disappointedly, and we see more and more fierce corruption in China. High salary alone will not reduce corruption, admittedly. It will combine with other measures to take effect.

Secondly, by implementing it gradually and experimenting it in some zones, high salary policy will exert a sunshine effect on the potential bribe-takers. Officials will seriously consider their gains and risks when they encounter dark money, because they already have bright sunshine money. The recent attempt to offer officials additional 3,000 yuan of sunshine money in Dalian City has greatly encouraged our country leaders, and Dalian has witnessed substantial decrease in corruption. With the development of our country’s economic power, we believe that high salary will become more and more available to other cities.

To sum up, I strongly hold that high salary is an effective supplementary measure against corruption.

deltoid

Whether does the high salary reduce corruption, possibly now most people hold the suspicion. how much money should the official and leader of state-owned enterprise take  to be appropriate, also is uncertainty,France is a such country that official's salary is very low, if they don't go to the extra job they could't support the family .


Moreover, the high treatment is the present our country official troop huge main reason; In fact with ours official troop's treatment"s increase, but human's level and the ability have not come up actually. The multitudinous official takes the high salary, does not have to want actually to do own official duty work, but is using own authority to seek private gain. Perhaps government system official has several sets of houses, they obtain more benefits through the hiring. They all are seeking private gain using the country for theirs authority and using the national material interest, thus they could not again the high salary.

Only they take common people's average income ,we can purify the official troop, we can let the state-owned enterprise staff have the enthusiasm. Thus the official troop thin body has the necessity very much. But the official troop thin body lies in falls reduce the salary, which lets those pursue profits from people automatically to get out of the way; Like this was left over is mostly the honest official which sought the benefit for the people.

tycoon

High salary cannot guarantee a clean government. At first, let's look at the reason why those officials take bribes. Does it result from the fact that they are underpaid. Of course not. In fact, they enjoy a much more comfortable life than the general public. It is obvious that they don't need to worry about their living. So we can see it is not a matter of money. Money is not a cure-all medcine. No doubt that even if they are highly paid, their insatiable lust for more material possesions can never be satisfied. The desire for more feeds upon itself.
High salary cannot serve as a means to eliminate corruption. you know, one's daily necessities can be easily fulfiled. The problem is their selfishness and greed. This is bottomless hole. Actuallly many corrupt officials just fall into the hole. The unchecked selfishness and greed cannot be cured.
So we may see a supervision system might be necessary. And also due attention should be given to the education of these officials.

louselice^_^

I believe that to give officals high salary is a effective means  to  reduce corruption in our country. As it is said by a official who is my acquaintance, he is quite satisfied with his income and the welfare. I won't do such a silly thing to lose my job,he said.

However,some people may argue that it is because the boodle is not enough to the appetite of  high level salary offlicals. The more salary they get, the more  bribe they want. In fact, this is a view of extremeness. Since the bribery can not be banned in the world-wide scale, it is a valid way to raise the sill of it so as to reduce the bribability.

Forther more, the officals must regard their work as a moral obligation and avoid making such mistakes.

windancer

Fat salary is not necessary for the officials in our countries.As we all know,the salary of the officials is  considerable high.And that is enough for them to  earn their families's bread and most of them is living a happy life.
  Is salary is the important reason of  corruption of the goverment officers?Of course not.
Becausr there are quite a bit high offcials who have corrupted and are corrupting.Take HuChangqing ,ChengKejie for example.No one can say their wage is low.Just the opposite,they are well paid.In my opinion,salary is not the reason of the corruption no matter it is low or high.One's avaricious desire is the critical reason.As the saying goes,man of noble character is keen on wealth and gets itin a advisable way.But the corrupt offcials are out of line.Even they are having a especially high salary,they will attain wealth in their own way breaking the law.
  From my standpoint,that's what it's all about.If we want to reduce corruption,we should consider other ways ,rather than paying officials high salary.

travis

Is high salary a necessary condition or a sufficient condition for eliminating corruption? My answer is: neither of them. However, what I do believe is that high salary is a very important factor in reducing corruption.

High salary is not a necessary condition for eliminating or reducing corruption. In Nazi Germany and Stalinist russia, few corruption could be detected. However, I doubt how many epople will agree to reduce corruption at the price of being exploitated by a totalitarian regime. After all, there are many examples of countries which corruption co-exists with liberal democracy or amazing economic growth (today's China is an execellent example of the latter). Therefore, high salary seems to be a better choice for reducing corruption than totalitarian ruling.

High salary is also not a sufficient condition for eliminating or reducing corruption. There is hardly a boundary for human's desire. However, this does not mean high salary cannot help to limit such desire. In the Ming Dynasty of China, the first emperrors are very cruel to the corrupted government officials, but that did not stop the widely expanded corruption in the bureacratic system, because the legal salary of the government official could not make them able to afford a decent life. The emperrors later began to award he officials with certain proportion of the taxes. The experiences of this period showed that how low salary forced bureacrats to be corrupted.

Thus my conclusion is that, although high salary is neither the necessary or sufficient condition of eliminating or reducing corruption, it is still the best realistic way we ever find. With the realisation of human imperfection, high salary should always be the primary choice of preventing corruption.

阿连

I believe that a high salary can not KEEP an official honest and that high salary can not ROOT UP corruption, though I agree that high salary can REDUCE corruption. So, if just only “REDUCE” not “ROOT UP”, what’s the use? Why should we pay officials higher salaries not equal to what they do?  Why should we pay officials higher salaries just because they are officials? Our price is too high. We need not pay such a high price. My point is, high-salary policy is not the best.

Someone says that most officials are paid poorly, and they should get better pay. But I don’t believe it. Anyone with common sense won’t believe it. Man is selfish. How can a policy-maker make a salary policy against himself? How can a policy-maker’s salary be below average? How many other privileges have the officials got besides cars, houses and banquets? For thousands of years, China’s officials’ life has been better than ordinary people.

Still others say that westerners have set us a good example by giving officials high salaries. Generally, it is true western officials are less corrupted than the Chinese officials. But it is not because of high salaries. It is because of the system.
High salaries alone can not promise an official to be an honest person. If high salaries make an official honest and low salaries make an official corrupted, why did we not see more corrupted officials in Mao’s time, when almost everybody got low salaries?

So, in order to KEEP the officials honest, we should build a system first. A high salary is not the best policy.

sddz

本期活动结束～～～～～～～～～～～～～～～～～～

l_675

Fist of all,I hold the viewpoint that an officer's corrupt behavior doesn't necessary have something to do with the salary he receives.
    As a matter of fact, Corruption has become an issue of major political and economic significance in recent years and the necessity to take measures against it has become evident.  Bribery and corruption can be as harmful as the plagues that prevail in our society. However, corruption is a problem not only in one country but runs right through to the society of a number of the other countries .The levels of corruption needing to be dealt with range from sheer nepotism to crude bribery,and it doesn't go directly with the poor financial support of the country.   
    Corruption is like a ball of snow, once it's set a rolling it must increase. Money and Corruption are ruining the land crooked politicians betray the working man. After all, that is a misfortune of an ethnarch.